interview
For many couples, financial issues are the biggest challenge in the relationship — and money is often a taboo subject. Financial expert Mueller described the reasons for doing so in an interview.
tagesschau.de: Studies show that couples are reluctant to talk about money. why is that?
Claudia Muller: The topic of money often leads to debate. However, this is also culturally determined. In Germany we don’t like to talk about money, neither in relationships nor with friends or colleagues. Asking about salary is also not favored.
But in a relationship, it’s going to be even more important because we’re not all that connected to anyone else, either emotionally or financially. When in doubt, we share the cost of apartments, holidays and children.
to people
After studying International Economics and Political Science, Claudia Müller worked for several years at the Deutsche Bundesbank where she was responsible for the topic of sustainable investing.
Müller is currently the CEO of the Women in Finance Forum, which educates women about financial issues and provides opportunities for them to exchange ideas, support and learn from each other.
“Men usually talk a little more about money”
tagesschau.de: Do women and men equally dislike talking about money, or are there differences?
miller: It’s interesting: Men generally talk more about money because society assigns it to them to some extent, too. Today, men are often responsible for bringing the money home and then managing it. Women, on the other hand, don’t want to talk about it at all.
Interestingly, when a woman in a relationship starts bringing up the topic, the male reaction is complete shock. Often the question comes from a man: “Do you want to separate?”. This of course hinders this conversation even more, for women as well. So both parties are responsible.
tagesschau.de: Many couples don’t even talk about money because they are afraid of fighting. Isn’t it okay to talk about money?
miller: We have to learn to deal with it harmoniously. Arguing about money is still a reason for divorce. For example, it can be helpful to announce that you want to talk about money. You should then consciously take the time to have this conversation in order to be able to explain your motivations or your own fears and concerns.
For example, “I want fair financials if we break up.” Because, let’s be honest, the biggest problem is that 30% of couples stay together because they can’t afford to separate. That’s why these kinds of financial discussions are extremely important – more importantly, we want to find the right moment and understand each other’s perspectives.
“Completely Diffused Fear”
tagesschau.de: Separation is just one situation. Illness and even death of a partner can also have financial consequences. What are the consequences if money remains a taboo subject?
miller: 68% of women fear poverty in later life. Probably not all of these women have nothing to fear when dealing with this topic. Because if we start talking about money, then we can do something to improve our situation.
Only then can we see if the monster we fear under the bed is really a monster, or if it’s just a nice pet that wants to be petted. But if we taboo the topic, don’t even look at it, then it’s just a totally diffused fear.
Couples should know their income
tagesschau.de: There is a lot of research on the topic of “couples and money”. One such study showed that many people don’t even know how much their partners earn. Isn’t that fatal?
miller: In principle, it is based on joint income. If you don’t know how much is available, you can’t plan well, and you can’t judge how much you can spend and whether it’s still within your budget.
This is fatal, especially with high inflation. Due to rising prices, many people feel insecure and sometimes face financial bottlenecks. Then it is very important to understand how much money is in the relationship.
Once I start splitting expenses – starting with going on vacation together – I need to talk. Is this vacation right for you financially, or is it actually out of your budget? Maybe I’d rather go camping and my partner would prefer a five star luxury hotel.
The truth is somewhere in between. But one of them costs extra. That’s what we have to talk about.
“Money Liberation is still in its infancy”
tagesschau.de: We talk a lot about women’s empowerment, but when it comes to money, we don’t really seem to be making progress, do we?
miller: I think that liberation in terms of money is actually still in its infancy.
One of the reasons women structurally make less money, make less money overall, and care less about money: Women take parental leave longer and work part-time more often.
Today, only single-digit percentages of young parents split parental leave equally. Women take longer parental leave in more than 90% of cases.
This in itself is not a problem. It doesn’t matter if you add or lose a year for every 40 years you work. But the resulting consequences are definitely measurable: People who take more parental leave also tend to care more for their children afterwards. This means: more days of absence from work due to sick children, closing times of daycare centers and school holidays must be taken into account.
Of course, this affects your career and thus your salary. Because part-time work is still very rare in Germany. This means that the income gap is widening.
tagesschau.de: So it’s a structural problem that women probably won’t be able to solve on their own. But is this the only problem?
miller: The problem is fundamental: Women live longer with less money. That means they have to live longer with less money. The financial sector is also responsible for this, and to date has built very strong mechanisms, by men for men, on which to communicate.
In other words, he actually ignored the needs of women and did not target female customers. They should also be clear that women must be treated differently than men when it comes to financial matters. You have other options.
A Simple Deal with it from an early age
tagesschau.de: So it’s all the more important for children—especially girls—to learn how to handle money from an early age, isn’t it?
miller: This is very important. Nor should we underestimate how much children can learn just by watching. Therefore, it is important for them to understand how their parents handle money. Is it a stress factor? Is this a positive? Does it not exist at all? This is where parents can really serve as role models.
The first pocket money is also important – take some responsibility for it and consider: How much do you want to have in your short-term memory? What on earth are you trying to save money for? What are your goals and aspirations?
After all, in order to fulfill one’s wishes, one needs money. We can really start this topic early and make sure our kids learn how to handle it in a healthy and simple way.
These questions were posed by ARD Finance Editor Anne-Catherine Beck. The interview was shortened and edited into a written version.